1: the act of creating; especially: the act of bringing the world into ordered existence
2: the act of making, inventing, or producing: as a: the act of investing with a new rank or office b: the first representation of a dramatic role
3: something that is created: as a: world b: creatures singly or in aggregate c: an original work of art d: a new usually striking article of clothing. Merriam-Webster
I think the ability to create is the greatest attribute we humans have. To create makes us human, whether it is art, music, writing, or money. If you think about it there are two types of people in this world, those who create and those who live off of those who create.

Who do you think lives the more complete, happy, and satisfied life?

So the next time you make a trade that creates a dollar for you where none existed before take a moment and congratulate yourself on this beautiful thing you have created.


Ayumi said...

Wow! "..a dollar for you where none existed before"
This is great!

Black said...

Solon’s warning is “The uncertain future has yet to come, with all variety of future; and him only to whom the divinity has guaranteed continued happiness until the end we may call happy.” In other words, “it ain’t over til it’s over.”

Will be happy until the profitable trade closes into my pocket. :)

Anonymous said...

No dollar has been created, it has just been snatched from someone else. That's not beautiful, it's brutal.

I think you've been on some hippie retreat the past 10 days, you never used to be this soft :-)

Solfest said...

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.



EIT said...

can't imagine why you think trading profits have anything to do with creativity - if anything trading is stealing just that you can't see the poor victim.

Solfest said...

You zero sum guys all assume we close the position with the same guy we opened it with.

If I buy, someone else sells.

I can sell that contract 30 seconds later and make money.

The guy that sold me the contract could hold his position for 2 weeks and make money.

Both of us created money where there was none before.


If you guys choose to see it as robbery....well...to each his own.

EIT said...

so noone loses...?

Solfest said...

That is correct. No one loses.


Both traders could lose, both traders could win, or...wait for it... one trader could win and one trader could lose.

Perhaps you should consider bank robbery, it is slightly less risky than trading.

EIT said...

so by your flawed logic losing money is the opposite of creation ie destruction??

Solfest said...


You can create wealth or you can destruct wealth.

Is this news?

Solfest said...

I see by your extended absence that you have seen the error of your ways.

It takes a big man to admit when he is wrong, and you sir, are very big.

Let me explain one more time.

Poker is a zero sum game, all enter at the same time and all who stay in the game (you can leave early with a loss) find out at the same time who the winner is.

One winner, the rest losers.

That is a zero sum game.

Trading is not a zero sum game because the game ends at different times for all the players.


EIT said...

just got back from my golf - i see you're still trying to defend an indefensible position.

let's go back to your original post.

'To create make us human, whether it is art, music, writing or money.'

abssolute nonsense to include money in there - you make money not create it.

entrepreneurs create a product and sell it to make money - the product is created, the money is a resultant byproduct.

money has always existed - the fed prints money - the printing machine was created.

sheeesh the cold up there must really be getting to your brain.....

Solfest said...

I stand corrected.

Your ability to formulate the determination between the words make and create is truly breath taking.

Or, if I might, creative.

Anonymous said...

I've been away calming down because I was so incensed by the need to subtitle the DL. If we have to subtitle anyone with an accent but perfectly good English then we'll have to include Jennifer Tilly.

It seems that you are somehow using the concept of 'time' as your defence of non-zero-sum BUT I think that in the trading of futures the game is indeed time-limited by contract expiry. Each contract is zero-sum.

It's too late in the UK for me to follow this to a logical conclusion (which is a subtle way of saying that I don't yet(?) understand it) but I think it is a relevant point.

Solfest said...

At least, as your title suggests, you are prepared to be wrong.

If you and I could only trade the contract between each other it would be a zero sum game.

Like poker, you would know who all the participants are.

In the futures market we don't know who they are and we don't know when the game ends for each of them as they don't have to hold to expiry.

I thought for sure the poker analogy would seal the deal for you.


EIT said...

guys, the theme of this post is nothing to do with trading as a zero sum game - it's sol's application of the word creativity to trading profits.

but i'm going to stop banging my head against this brick wall.

sol's difficulty with mathematics and difficulty with logic are directly related.

sadly where logic doesn't exist meaningful communication is futile.

sol's refusal to admit his mistake reminds me of the story of the mother watching her son in the marching parade who comments 'isn't it funny they're all out of step except for my johnny'

however i do understand that it must be very embarrassing to have to admit that the basic tenet of the blog post is critically flawed - so i won't embarrass him any further.....

Solfest said...

I'll just let all the words stand for themselves.


Anonymous said...

I am prepared to be wrong (!) as I don't understand this fully, but I think you are just using the concept of unrealised loss to hide the actual loss behind. Banks also did this and look where that got them :-) Who holds the loss and for what period doesn't change the fact that it is a loss that balances your gain.

The only creativity I could find (man) was that we are involved in 21st century alchemy creating money from risk.

I guess EIT is playing golf, he was doing a much better job than I at debunking your fanciful ideas.

Anonymous said...

Apologies, EIT's concluding post appeared after I had written (but not sent) mine.

I think zero-sum and the idea of creativity are inextricably linked in the same way that I can't ever 'create' energy.

Peace indeed.

Solfest said...

I and everyone else on the planet have grown weary of this.

Watch the video, read the post, and ignore the rest.

The Final Word.

ANON said...

Putting capital where it can do the most work is not creative? Tell that to Gates, Buffet, etc.

Solfest may not have explained it well enough for you, but he's definitely on the right track. Trading creates (yes CREATES!) markets. And the money derived from them is generated because the people (whether by dumb luck, tenacity, brilliance, sacrifice, whatever) who "win", put their capital into ideas that happened to be better than the competition.

It may not always work out, and you'll definitely find loopholes (often created by various forms of idiocy and idealism), but that's how the game works.

I'd say, it's definitely not zero sum. Perhaps one trade isn't creating anything (I beg to differ). But in the long run, you're creating a market that allows society to grow into something better.

Now, as for poker...that is a little less opaque, no? Haha.

PS: Awesome vid, Sol.

TST said...

a) Anything valuable will bring happiness. Not just being creative or being compasionate. Value.

b)Trading is a business (good/bad) but poker is game/gambling. So it is clear that trading is not a zero-sum, just an unfair practise of distribution :-)


Solfest said...

"an unfair practise of distribution"


I like that one.

Or is it "unfair"?

ANON said...

Hmmm. At least we're over the value creation hurdle? Haha.

Fair? It is summer, and all I can (or want to) think of when I hear that word "fair" are hot dogs, funnel cake, french fries, icees, concerts, rides...

I'd bite if there were some fair food at the end. 99.999% unlikely. Definitely, imo, unfair...

Solfest said...

ANON, :)

Yes let's have a civilized discussion.

Why is it unfair?

I believe it was unfair before high speed internet and online trading, but now?

Don't all the participants have access to the same info at the same time.

If the floor still had unfair advantages would not the number of floor traders be going up instead of down?

I suppose institutions may have inside info that independents don't have.

The size of your capital may give you an advantage, but I'm not sure I would classify that as unfair.

As you can see I don't see this game as me against them. It's me against me. Bad Solfest vs. good Solfest.

If I win that battle I win.

Jules said...

I agree with you, Solfest.

But that would mean I have to disagree with LW.

Since I always agree with LW, I am now torn...

I like the word "create". It energizes! :-)

Solfest said...

Secretly LW agrees with me too.

ANON said...

^^^ to solfest's last comment

ps: i wrote something about "fair" but it disappeared into the abyss. I'm going to go eat hotdogs...